Is it acceptable blocking.

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Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by russoka on 12/3/2011, 13:15

Many of the players touches the so-called "blocking." Means
the block with juggling, where all passages are closed, but the mobs
are just going in a certain direction - to the nearest point on the
ship. If, in any open passage, the mobs go to the open road. Thus, regardless of the location of the mob, he will be seeking to go strictly in a certain direction. In this case, the following items appear features.


  • You can obtain a much more Inkombank at an early stage with smaller faces.
  • Control juggling a lot easier.
  • It is possible to rally a huge number of mobs in the labyrinth, causing their movement speed will be reduced.
  • Possible Exploide - an explosion if the mobs came to the nearest point on the ship, such as a block.
  • You can use multiblock - a new tactic Ultharas. On a matter of fact I will not tell. Just an improved version of the labyrinth with the block.
  • Much easier to control the movement when the mass was sent for a couple of seconds than if sent to the delays.
Either way, most players do not like this style. Call it a bug, abuse. On the other side of this style of game is not immortal, because the tower has a timer sale (though there is a cunning technique to bypass the timer, I personally do not like workarounds timer Sales).

More recently, in their host paper I introduced a rule prohibiting the use of blocking at juggling. And with one player went disagreements, he's really about, but alas, he left the game.

chat original:

mog13: blame, juggle is allowed, block-juggle not allowed now
blameful_: ok
blameful_: wait what
blameful_: block not allowed?!
blameful_: even leafmuncher blocks
blameful_: every1 blocks
mog13: Just not everyone knows how to juggle with the block, and generally juggle.
blameful_: i cant play without blocking
blameful_: and it is allowed
mog13: MoJo played without power normally, and does not like this style of game, for example.
blameful_: i cant play without blocking

So, I ask that guests TTW community expressed their views.

On Russian:

Многих игроков задевает так называемое "блокирование". Подразумевается блокирование при жонглировании, где все проходы закрыты, но мобы точно идут в определенном направлении - к ближайшей точке корабля. Если при этом открыть любой проход, мобы идут к открытому пути. Таким образом, вне зависимости от расположения моба, он будет стремится идти строго в определенном направлении. В таком случае проявляются следущие особенности.


  • Можно получить значительно больше инкома на раннем этапе с меньшими ликами.
  • Управление жонглированием значительно проще.
  • Возможно сплотить огромное количество мобов в лабиринте, в следствие чего их скорость перемещения будет замедлена.
  • Возможен Exploit(надеюсь я правильно понял смысл, в словаре означает подвиг) - взрыв в случае если мобы дошли до ближайшей точки кораблю, например к блоку.
  • Возможно использование мультиблока - новая тактика Ultharas'а. Суть просвещать не буду, просто усовершенствованный вариант лабиринта с блоками.
  • Значительно легче управлять движением когда послали массу за пару секунд, чем если бы посылали с задержками.
Так или иначе, большинство игроков не любят такой стиль. Называют это багом, абузом. С другой стороны такой стиль игры не является бессмертным, так как у башни есть таймер продажи(впрочем, есть хитрая методика обходить этот таймер, лично мне не нравится способы обхода таймера продажи)

С недавних пор, на своем хост-боте я ввел правило запрещающее использовать блокирование при жонглировании. И с одним игроком пошли разногласия, он действительно про, но увы, он вышел из игры.

chat on russian:

mog13: blame, жонглирование допустимо, блок жонглирование не допустимо сейчас.
blameful_: ок
blameful_: погоди, что?
blameful_: блок не допустим?!
blameful_: даже leafmuncher блокирует
blameful_: каждый блокирует
mog13: Просто не все знают, как манипулировать с блоком, и в целом жонглировать.
blameful_: я не могу играть без блокирования
blameful_: и это допустимо
mog13: MoJo играет без блока обычно, и ему не нравится такой стиль игры, например.
blameful_: я не могу играть без блокирования

Так вот, я прошу чтобы постояльцы ттв сообщества высказали свою точку зрения.


Last edited by russoka on 12/3/2011, 19:35; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by russoka on 12/3/2011, 13:29

Add to this, there is a problem with the engine forum. Spoiler in the spoiler is not displayed correctly.
on russian:
Добавлю к этому, есть проблема с движком форума. Спойлер внутри спойлера не правильно отображается.
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by Chilled on 12/3/2011, 13:40

The answer is as simple as it could possibly be: everyone has his own choise, if someone think that block juggling isn't bad and know how to use it why would someone forbid it then, and that rule on your bot in my opinion is not quite smartest decision coz' it looks like dictatorial that is wrong by itself
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by russoka on 12/3/2011, 13:55

Speaking of dictatorial rule, I add that not only I use the rule "without blocking. " This rule, I try to satisfy the interests of the majority of players, although it may I make a mistake.

on russian:
Говоря о диктаторских правилах, я добавлю что не только я использую правило "без блокирования". Этим правилом я пытаюсь удовлетворить интересы большинства игроков, хотя может я делаю ошибку.


Last edited by russoka on 12/3/2011, 14:26; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by Chilled on 12/3/2011, 14:10

You can do whatever you want, but for example,personally i use only block-juggling maze's when a goalie and for my shame don't know any good effective normal maze's for that position, just saying that this will limit some player's option's
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by russoka on 12/3/2011, 14:25

The prohibition to use -random before writing mode type -ar, -rm too Limits player, first he will have a total of 35 food instead of 70, only one race, and one population building. I'm serious.
on russian:
Запрет использовать -random перед написанием мода типа -ar, -rm тоже ограничевает игрока, во первых у него будет всего 35 пищи вместо 70, только одна раса и одна ферма. Я серьезен.
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by MoJo on 12/3/2011, 15:52

The same old block juggling story ...
sigh ...
I though that the TTW staff was clear about this :
- Block juggling is acceptable for the moment but the new TTW version will try to limit the block juggle as much as possible.
- Sell/cancel is considered abuse and it shall not be used (also a measure against it is being developed )
- The mode bugs (-random before mode) are nothing more than just bugs and must never be used intentionally (abused)

People ... quit trying to find new modes in cheating the engine and play the map as everyone does it : If you see block jugglers, then hell, use it as well. If not, try to respect those players and don't use it yourself. Is not a tragedy if you lose as long as it was a good game.

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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by H3katonkheir on 12/3/2011, 19:30

H3katonkheir wrote:...

  • Block-juggling, originally classified as abuse, is 'legal', however at this point in time it is a mechanism which is overly powerful, hence why people will argue about it and why it is raged at / frowned upon.
    Verdict; Not abuse.
    Solution (planning for future versions); When a blockage is detected, creeps in that region receive compensation; likely with a movement speed bonus. Additionally the player will be informed that a the region is blocked.

...

This was in the discussion that you started russoka.

In regards to;
Code:
[spoiler=<text1>]
    <text>
    [spoiler=<text2>]
    <text>
    [/spoiler]
[/spoiler]
Not working correctly, I will discuss this on the ForuMotion platform to try find a solution. (It is a fundamental BBCode error that I have no direct control over).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by LeafMuncher on 12/3/2011, 23:49

The main reason why block-juggling was abuse in older versions was that it did not cause creeps to refresh their pathing until they reached the block, which was why such huge mobs formed. When 5.47 came out, pathing refreshed instantly, making block juggling far more of a risk.

I recommend that players learn to juggle in the standard way before trying the fancier methods of juggling (block-juggle, mini-juggle, half-juggle, build-juggle, etc)

Yes, there are that many types of juggling (even more if you include the 3-way and the truly reckless methods), but few players know more than just basic and block. I will likely write up a full juggling tutorial in the far future, but I think it should be up to the players to experiment.

On another note, anything that bypasses the sell timer entirely is abuse (of which I know 3 methods), plain and simple


Last edited by LeafMuncher on 13/3/2011, 01:09; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by MoJo on 13/3/2011, 00:29

Juggling tutorial that includes all the ways to juggle ? Really ?.
That's like saying : "People, abuse the pathing as much and as hard as you can, is for your own good!".

Many types of juggling that only you and a very small group of people know... another word for saying :"I made up many names for juggling techniques that dont really help me much based on the same concept : BLOCKING"

mini juggle, half juggle, ... really curious too see what you meant when you wrote that


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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by LeafMuncher on 13/3/2011, 01:20

Well half juggle is a simple one, its the opposite of block juggling. It uses the same principal though. Basically blocking and selling your short side before creeps get far enough in your main area to continue along that path.

Build juggle and mini juggle are a bit harder to explain.

Its not that they don't help much, I'm just too lazy to use them in pub games. They are actually very effective, especially against constant sending as opposed to bunch sends (bunch = boss + mass, pause, boss/mass, etc)

What I meant to say was a couple tutorials each for a different method of juggling. Putting it all into one post would be quite a huge essay.
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by o0o_o0o on 23/3/2011, 20:22

I am scared to juggle... It always seems that the races I get to goalie with sells 10 x longer than any other race. And that is without any creeps in my maze... Just normal upgrading towers to stronger ones becomes a risk as the selling of towers sometimes takes over 20 seconds...

Boom! Explode! n00b goalie Crying
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by stevenjm on 23/3/2011, 22:41

heh ... cope fairly well with block juggling, thanks icecreamtoaster, but i simply CANNOT do it with rain makers, wisps are brilliant for block juggling Wink
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

Post by stevenjm on 23/3/2011, 22:42

LeafMuncher wrote:What I meant to say was a couple tutorials each for a different method of juggling. Putting it all into one post would be quite a huge essay.

cummon Leaf, you can do it!
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Re: Is it acceptable blocking.

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